Hybrid or Remote Work, What's Happening Now?

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Business Finance and Soul. My name is Shaun Enders, and I'm a curious entrepreneur.

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_00]: I love exploring business, personal finance, and consciousness.

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll jump around topics, offer my opinions, and occasionally interview interesting people.

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_00]: Looking forward to going on this journey. Let's be curious together.

[00:00:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Business Finance and Soul.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So we are going to tackle the evolution of remote work, hybrid, and the conversation around return to office.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a lot to say on this subject because I personally have helped navigate Transition Staffing Group, our organization,

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_01]: from a fully in-office company for over 15 years.

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_01]: We're very brick and mortar. We have a large location here in the Southern California marketplace, and COVID changed all of that.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it changed it for the world. And so we were part of that, and we had some great options.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And I want to talk a little bit about how we've evolved, what we're seeing out in the marketplace.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: As a recruitment firm, we have the advantage of working with companies of where we get this special vantage point,

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_01]: of where we get to work with hiring managers. We're kind of hearing how the C-suite is making decisions surrounding this topic.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's been fascinating how things have unfolded really post-COVID.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So for some people, they have been—my aunt is actually one of them.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_01]: She was a developer with Microsoft, software developer with Microsoft years ago, and she had always been fully remote.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_01]: She would go into an office just to strategize with the team, pick up and share information, and then really work in a remote capacity.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember her doing that over 30 years ago. So remote work isn't new, but the rise of it to become mainstream was thrust upon us when things shut down.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_01]: When the world shut down during COVID, all of a sudden everyone was—that could.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, there's many jobs where you are either essential or you had to perform your job in person.

[00:02:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you weren't in that space though and you did have the opportunity to entertain this conversation and your company did put a policy together,

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_01]: you were thrust into this new reality of being fully remote. And some people have thrived.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: They've really, really enjoyed it and others have not.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think we talk enough about both sides because it seems to be the dream to be able to work from home.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_01]: That obviously on face value for many people you say, oh my gosh, you have complete freedom. You can work from home.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_01]: It's a no-brainer. So I want to share some stories today of what we've personally experienced, what we're seeing as a trend in the marketplace.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_01]: And if you are staying in a fully remote environment, what are some ways to make sure that you are hyperproductive,

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_01]: that you don't feel like you're being left behind, and that you are fully engaged?

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is important because you don't want your career to stagnate just because you have the flexibility around this type of setup.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So when pre-pandemic transition staffing grew our firm, I never imagined that a staffing firm could ever be anything but in person.

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I knew there were some variations of companies that were doing some remote work for maybe sourcing resumes and candidates and things like this.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_01]: But for interviews, for going out to client locations and getting tours, facilities, this was all done in person.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is honestly where a lot of trust was built. Relationships were forged.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Fast forward to the pandemic, and we're doing the same job, but now we're doing it remotely.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And what we noticed over the course of the first year is that many of us thrived, but there were a few that did not.

[00:05:03] [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, we had one of our employees that was doing well, and he was hitting his stride.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: But when it came to working fully remote, he really, really struggled.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_01]: He actually found himself in a more depressive state.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And I spent a fair amount of time over the course of almost a full month really talking to him about changing his routine, making sure that he took walks and was very intentional with getting out and seeing people.

[00:05:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, there were a few things happening.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, the world had shut down at the same time, and he was feeling things that he had never felt before.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_01]: But for him, remote work just never fit.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was a tough, tough scenario.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And I had to respect that.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_01]: And we let him move on to another new opportunity.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_01]: We had a younger individual who was 23 years old, a talented athlete in college.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And she was working remote for us for almost a year.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And what she struggled with was the lack of connection.

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_01]: She felt a bit isolated.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_01]: And as we had these heart to hearts, it really came out that she needed that.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: She needed to at least work in office on a part-time basis.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And given the fact that we hired her and she was not in Southern California, that wasn't an option for us.

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_01]: We couldn't get her to be close to our group.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_01]: She was 1,500 miles away in the Northwest, and that just wasn't going to be an option.

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that was an eye-opener for me because it allowed me to see now a couple different variations of the same problem.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Remote work isn't for everyone.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And so this idea that it is a straight line between all of us where we can say, hey, if you have this complete flexibility,

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: if you have this, you know, detachment from your peers on a day to day that you're going to feel this sense of freedom that you've never felt before.

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's not ubiquitous.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And what I've learned along the way is that we need to screen for individuals that really, really enjoy and thrive in that remote setting.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Just believing that you will isn't enough.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01]: You have to have a strategy.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to cover a little bit of this because if you are in a remote state or you feel like that's something that you want to go toward,

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_01]: or if you're a manager that has employees that are producing for you, you know, out of stage or just even away from the office,

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_01]: maybe they're even in state, but they just they are fully remote.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You want to have some steps of where you can help create a productive remote environment that you can really work on the state of mind needed to be productive,

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_01]: that you can stay connected with your team and that you can optimize success.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01]: So again, as I was saying earlier, that you're not left behind.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what I think most of us want is we want flexibility.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_01]: We want freedom, but we also want opportunity.

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_01]: We also want to succeed.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_01]: What we're noticing right now with companies is this return to office seems to be more of a hybrid return to office.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_01]: But this shifts the conversation a bit because we're seeing more of our clients saying, hey, we are going to do a return to office.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_01]: You'll see it RTO out there.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_01]: We are going to do a return to office, but we are going to do hybrid.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like we want you to come back, but we're going to make some we're going to be a little bit flexible here and we're going to let you be hybrid.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, this shifts the entire thought process from my perspective.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not sure if we're talking about this enough.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Hybrid work is a benefit to someone that says, hey, one or two days a week, you don't have to come into the office and deal with traffic and be away from your house.

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be a benefit for you.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: But what fully remote does, it's a strategy.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It's not so much a benefit, but it's a strategy where the company is saying, hey, I want to expand my recruiting footprint.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I want to be able to.

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_01]: We're in Southern California.

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And when we went fully remote, we were able to start looking at employees anywhere around the entire U.S.

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Our only hurdles were time zones and things like this.

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_01]: But ultimately, we could expand who we wanted to recruit.

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So remote from that perspective, it wasn't a benefit.

[00:10:24] [SPEAKER_01]: The byproduct, it's a benefit for the right person.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_01]: But as an organization, it's become a strategy when you do hybrid.

[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_01]: You really are saying it's no longer a recruiting strategy for us.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_01]: It's an extra benefit now we give to people who are still within the geographical constraints of our office footprint.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think if you're in a position where you're making these decisions, you should think about it this way.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_01]: You should really say, hey, what is the point of this?

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: Are we just trying to have more benefits or are we intentionally creating strategies that allow us to recruit?

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Talent in different areas, which in essence helps us find better talent.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, the argument is right now and it's what's unclear definitively of what what decision here is going to be more productive in office or fully remote.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_01]: It's debatable because there's so many different types of jobs that can succeed in one or the other.

[00:11:39] [SPEAKER_01]: So if you're a software developer, like I mentioned, my aunt.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, fully remote probably works really well for you.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_01]: You can get into flow. You have no distractions.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_01]: You still can stay connected to your team.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Your mindset is that way.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And that might be easier for you.

[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Customer service also might be OK.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Fully remote headset on your answering calls as they come into you.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_01]: And that focus can be really great.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_01]: You can really power through some things, but collaboratively engineering teams or even our own organization sales teams of where there is a lot of collaboration amongst groups.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_01]: That could be difficult at times.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_01]: While things are going well and you're productive, it can be working out great.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: But for people that you need to mentor or help guide during difficult periods and anytime you're in sales or business development, there will be ebbs and flows.

[00:12:40] [SPEAKER_01]: There will be times where people are struggling.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And if they're fully remote, you've got to have a really strong strategy in terms of how to guide them along.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And so this conversation isn't, you know, as black and white as we'd all like it to be.

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_01]: There is very nuanced.

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_01]: And I believe it starts with one, what is your strategy?

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And then two, you should know that you are going to in fact struggle a bit when things don't go your way.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's going to be compounded if you don't actually have a great policy in place of leadership and how to navigate through a remote setting.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_01]: If you are fully remote and it's been decided you're in this environment, you know, I want to go through some strategies with you.

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Number one, I think it's very important before you take a remote job to find a space where you feel creative and productive.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, this could be a dedicated home office if you have it.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It could be a corner in your living room or even it could be a coffee shop.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: It even could be shared workspace, industrious or we work or something like that if your employer will support that.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_01]: But ultimately you really need to have a space that you feel good, creative and productive.

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't have that in its makeshift, it will compound in a negative way.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_01]: It can grind on you after a little while.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Another thing that I think is extremely important is dressing for success.

[00:14:26] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a highly underrated comment because many people think, oh, well I can just crawl out of bed and in my PJs and I have no commute and I can show up five minutes before I'm going to work.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_01]: But I can tell you the impact of getting dressed as if you're going into the office is tremendous.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Because psychologically when we get ourselves into a professional mindset, it puts us into that state, that state of achievement.

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Don't believe me? When military personnel put on their uniform, they feel differently.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_01]: They feel connected to a cause.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_01]: When football players put on their pads, they feel connected to the game.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_01]: When you're going to run, when you lace up your shoes, you know that feeling when you put on your running shoes, where you're going.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Your gym clothes, when you put those on, you feel different.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Everything in terms of our clothing is tied to an emotion.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And when you put yourself into that state, you now know you're shifting that state of mind into a performance state of mind, whatever it's going to be.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I think we really have to talk about this because if you are going to go into a work state of mind, it doesn't mean you need to put on your power suit.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_01]: What it does mean is that you need to change your mindset in a way that allows you to jump into the profession that you occupy.

[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So if previously that was a polo shirt before you went into the office and that helped you feel engaged, put on the polo shirt.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_01]: Put on the slacks. If it was a suit, maybe that's how you want to start your day by putting it on.

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_01]: You take your jacket off, but whatever helps change that state of mind, that habit can't be overstated.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_01]: State changes are important also.

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, really getting primed for your day. Taking a short walk, meditating.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: I am a big believer in this breath work, cold plunging if you want to jump into that space.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But changing your state of mind and getting ready for your day is huge.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And when I look at working from home and being successful, I see there are commonalities between getting dressed, having a great space, getting your state of mind in the right state.

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And productivity hacks.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I look at all of this, I go, okay, well, how do I make sure that I'm really taking advantage of the time that I have?

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's weird working from home eight hours when you could do some dishes when you're on a call or do some laundry or walk around your house.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_01]: It's very easy to have some air out of the tire.

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_01]: You don't realize that it's a slow leak in terms of productivity.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think things like time blocking, you know, really scheduling a break for yourself just like you would in office.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_01]: You really want to mirror what's happening in office, in your home office.

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And I just think that that's so important.

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_01]: The area that I talked about earlier, staying connected with your team is huge.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_01]: You need to make sure that your company or if you are a company and you're a manager that you have these really well-connected communication tools, things like Slack or Zoom or Microsoft Teams.

[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_01]: You've got to be able to jump on video with people.

[00:18:24] [SPEAKER_01]: You still have to see each other.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_01]: The phone's not going to do it.

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So the video and connectivity is big.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_01]: I've had some bouts of bad connectivity and it just absolutely annihilates everything productive.

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And so you got to make sure you've got great stable Internet, got to make sure that that you could stream easily and that your video doesn't freeze up.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_01]: These are very important things to feeling connected to your team.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_01]: You also want to make sure that you're having regular non-office time conversations, you know, virtual check ins that just you get to know each other still and you feel connected to something bigger.

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're a leader, you've got to beat that drum of what's the cause, you know, what's the why.

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And that's big for all of us staying connected to something more than just turning on our computer and doing the job.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_01]: I think another part of this whole balancing act is knowing when to work independent and when to stay connected and how you're feeling and being vocal about that.

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that there should be a fear to talk about these things.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_01]: The reason I'm able to share the two stories that I did where the gentleman who was struggling and then the younger employee who felt, you know, she really needed an office.

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_01]: The reason I'm able to share that is because I had an open line of communication.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I always have. And it might not be great news you need to share, but you always I will always want to create an environment of where people can share.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And so if you are in a space where you're working remote and you're feeling any of these feelings, talk it over with somebody, talk it over with your supervisor if you can and come up with it doesn't mean it's not for you,

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_01]: but it has to be explored so you can get to the root cause of your feelings.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe you do need to be in office or maybe you do need a hybrid schedule, but these things need to be talked about.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we're going to see a lot of trends kind of unfolding over the course of the next 18 to 24 months of where we're seeing companies that were hybrid saying some departments can go fully remote,

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_01]: some remote saying I need you back hybrid companies are trying to figure things out.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is very fluid. You know, profit and loss,

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_01]: workspace square footage, the investment companies have already made all of this is being taken into account recruiting strategies, benefits.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_01]: All of this is happening. It's very fluid. And I think we need to lean into that and just know that we will continue to see changes and we should embrace those.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_01]: But above all, let's make sure we're communicating. Let's make sure we're looking at our strategies.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_01]: And remember, this isn't a set it and forget it thing. It's every day. We have to know how we're attacking each day.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_01]: We have to make sure that we have a strategy that propels us into the future and sustainable, you know, for the for the next three months, six months, whatever.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So I hope that this was helpful. If you're in the same world as me, hopefully this has addressed some areas that you personally experience.

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And I will just tell you what has worked for us. Maybe won't always work for us, right? We were we were fully remote for the past four years.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_01]: We've done really well. And then we've hit some stumbling moments of where we've been like, gosh, you know, really having strategy sessions is important.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_01]: What we started doing because we were fully in office for 15 years and then fully remote and we were and we were thriving.

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_01]: What we started noticing is that, you know what? Yeah, once a month, we need to get a few of us together and do some in-persons.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: That's hard when you've hired people from out of the area. And so we've we've had to work around that.

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not talking about just flying in and having parties and things like that. We do that.

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm talking true strategy sessions when we hit those moments of struggle and we are working through that, you know, right now.

[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if there's any one answer, but I know that we're going to be constantly tweaking things.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_01]: There's always a variation of our reality of where we're saying, OK, this was reality yesterday.

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But right now we have to tweak these things to make sure that we can thrive for the future, that we can service our customer base most appropriately.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think if you embrace that change and you get excited about the opportunity and the upside,

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that type of communication creates more engaged employees that know, you know, hey, we're going in the right direction,

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_01]: even if it seems like things have to be tweaked and adjusted along the way. But it's exciting.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think that we'd be here 10 years ago. I never would have imagined so many companies would have this type of option.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_01]: I never thought hybrid would be this, you know, very cool widespread thing across the globe that we were able to pull off.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And we're here. And so expect more changes.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Expect more companies to, you know, swing that pendulum back and forth as they adjust and they find their own rhythm.

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_01]: And until next time, again, always stay curious and know that I appreciate you.